#23A - Divers Hunt Ghost Nets (dubbed via A.I. - elevenlabs)

00:00:11: Welcome to Michael's Green World, a podcast about sustainability innovation

00:00:16: and the

00:00:16: people who don't just talk about problems but work on solutions.

00:00:21: Many episodes of this podcast are focused on energy transition security or supply in large-scale technical systems.

00:00:31: Today we're heading straight back out into the field of practical environmental protection Into The Ocean And you quickly realize it is same story there.

00:00:41: It's about systems, responsibility technology and the question of why problems are often only solved so late.

00:00:49: We're talking ghost nets.

00:00:51: these are lost or abandoned fishing nets that continue to drift in the sea Or get snagged on wrecks rocks or on seabed Underwater.

00:01:00: they can actually look ghostly but above all They continued to catch injure and kill fish purposes seals birds and other marine animals.

00:01:13: These abandoned fishing nets must be recovered immediately, so they do not continue to cause extensive environmental damage for many years or even decades to come – it would far better if never lost in the ocean…or could be located and retrieved in a timely efficient

00:01:29: manner.".

00:01:31: That is precisely what the term Rades Fantasma means–the Portuguese term of what we call ghost nets!

00:01:38: However... Before we delve deeper into the topics of prevention, detection and the process of rapid recovery in a future episode today We are focusing our attention on the very end of the supply chain.

00:01:50: What does the actual process of recovering ghost nets from underwater environments really entail?

00:01:56: In Episode thirteen.

00:01:58: We introduced Ocean Patrol Our dedicated volunteer partner organization located in Portugal.

00:02:05: Episode seventeen focused on the preparations for the Rides Fantasma Symposium in Portugal, which centered on ghost nets and vital marine conservation.

00:02:15: We also often talked about beach cleanups there where volunteers collect hundreds of kilograms of marine debris from the beach in a single day.

00:02:26: but not everything gets washed up on the beach.

00:02:29: many nets remain in the water.

00:02:32: some hang deep down on wrecks There.

00:02:35: they become traps for animals and a danger for divers in shipping traffic.

00:02:42: My guest today is Sabine Kerkau, she's a technical wreck diver author photographer and videographer.

00:02:51: For more than eight years She has been leading the Baltic Sea Heritage Rescue Project!

00:02:56: For several years... ...she has also been voluntarily running The German Association Baltic sea nature and heritage protection association EV.

00:03:06: With her team She removes ghost nets from wrecks in the Baltic Sea, documents historical shipwrecks and collaborates with universities museums and professionals to protect underwater cultural heritage.

00:03:23: Her team has recovered around thirty tons of ghosts net from the Baltics sea over the past few years.

00:03:31: Sabine is one of most prominent technical wreck divers.

00:03:37: She is a member of the Women Divers Hall Of Fame, was according to X-Ray Magg.

00:03:44: The first German female diver to be inducted and was inducted as a Fellow into the Explorers Club in New York In twenty twenty six.

00:03:54: just recently A great honor.

00:03:58: on the twenty fourth of April in the year twenty twenty sixth Sabine Was present at the Radars Fantasma Symposium held at the Oceanario de Lisboa facility.

00:04:08: Her message was perfectly clear, recovery is absolutely necessary.

00:04:13: but if we only act once these nets have been lying on the seabed for many years... ...the effort is truly enormous!

00:04:18: The risk is high and damage is often already done.

00:04:22: that's precisely what are talking about today.

00:04:25: What can you see when your underwater?

00:04:27: And just how dangerous this kind of work?

00:04:31: Why so many net caught shipwrecks?

00:04:34: And what can we learn from this if want to tackle the problem earlier, faster and more systematically in future?

00:04:43: I'd like welcome you Sabine!

00:04:46: But it would be best just go ahead introduce yourself.

00:04:50: Thank you for the invitation Michael.

00:04:52: My name is Sabine Kerkau.

00:04:54: I am well, the front woman of our association Baltic Sea Nature and Heritage Protection Association And we are involved in recovering ghost nets from the sea.

00:05:06: We started doing this about ten years ago In The Baltic Seas As Of This Year Also In The Mediterranean written many articles and documented wrecks for universities, museums.

00:05:26: Ten years ago I was invited to Lithuania to document a German war wreck in the Baltic Sea –the Friedrich Karl–and that was the first time I consciously encountered the issue of ghost

00:05:38: nets.".

00:05:39: We have actually seen ghostnets all over the world and sometimes it can appear quite mystical And charming when these nets are hanging on shipwrecks or coral reefs.

00:05:49: I had never really thought about It before that this could Actually be a serious environmental problem.

00:05:55: In The Baltic Sea, When i was diving those wrecks there were times where we couldn't even see the wrecks anymore because of All the Nets dead fish and seals and birds too when they Were higher up And that really brought home to me just how bad it is and the kind of damage these loss nets are actually causing.

00:06:18: I tried to get people to listen to this problem with friends in Lithuania through government offices, the authorities politics even the Lithuanian president but none were really interested because no one can see what's going on down there.

00:06:37: No one sees it except us divers When we're standing on the beach, watching the sunset above the ocean.

00:06:43: We have no idea what's really going on underneath and naturally The authorities were in the same mindset.

00:06:51: No one felt responsible And no one had a respective budget.

00:06:54: so...we spent A year running from One office to the next and finally we decided okay if no-one else is Going To act..We Have to do it ourselves!

00:07:04: Then we started Carefully because this work Is costly and It is very Very dangerous.

00:07:09: We are now active at depths far below the recreational diving limit of forty meters.

00:07:18: That means these are long dives, they're dangerous dives and you can't just do that as a recreational diver.

00:07:25: You really need certain training skills to do something like this.

00:07:31: We are now engaged in this work for nearly ten years currently.

00:07:34: we pull out ten to fifteen tons of discarded net material every year.

00:07:40: that is just a drop-in the bucket because thousands of tons are lost every single year.

00:07:45: yes and nevertheless even if it feels like we're tilting at windmills,we want do these to save lives and fundamentally doing something good as human beings.

00:07:59: These nets are mostly constructed out of plastic.

00:08:03: This plastic takes four hundred to six hundred years... ...to end up in our food as microplastics and it poses a threat, I mean these nets are large and sturdy.

00:08:13: if they also pose a threat to shipping when they drift below the water surface.

00:08:19: They can put smaller but also larger ships In danger.

00:08:23: that means accidents can occur And people can be harmed But there is a situation That really does not have to happen.

00:08:50: That was a truly fantastic and detailed description of how all these different pieces actually fit together in the end.

00:08:57: Let me clarify... These are mostly discarded fishing nets, if I'm not mistaken.

00:09:03: They're just resting draped over shipwrecks scattered across the seabed.

00:09:09: It seems they tend to get snagged or rather entangled on those sunken ships.

00:09:17: Or how are we supposed to imagine that and tell me?

00:09:21: How do the nets actually get loaded onto the fishing ships?

00:09:24: Ghostnets or lost fishing nets can actually be many different types of nets.

00:09:30: These include things like gill nets and trawls, gill nests.

00:09:35: they break loose They're usually closer to the coast and drift through the water And then it can happen that they get snagged on shallower wrecks or reefs.

00:09:45: The trawl netts That we mainly deal with those are huge nets a hundred meters long fifty meters deep.

00:09:54: They are pulled through deeper water and depending on what the fisherman is catching, they're dragged near the bottom or higher up in their water column.

00:10:05: They can either tear loose because the nets might be old... ...and the lines no longer hold the weight of fish that catch them.

00:10:15: They can get snagged on wrecks or shoals, what happens from time to time.

00:10:20: Or sometimes is that they go overboard in a storm and you cant entirely rule this out.

00:10:31: due to disposal fishing nets that are no longer needed, which in the past was common practice were simply thrown overboard while at sea.

00:10:41: By now the fishermen realized this obviously isn't okay but I still wouldn't rule out.

00:10:47: there is some who do it because its cheapest way to dispose of things and whatever ends up in water just drifts around somewhere.

00:10:58: It does not settle on the bottom, but instead it drifts around and eventually gets stuck somewhere along the way.

00:11:10: As I mentioned these sites are primarily composed of shipwrecks or shallow reefs.

00:11:18: interestingly buoyancy aids keep discarded nets from resting on the ships, causing them to hover suspended like large circus tents.

00:11:30: Effectively they form a solid vertical wall.

00:11:35: I mean i've often seen wrecks big wrecks that are about eighty meters long and ten meters wide or high.

00:11:42: um.

00:11:43: And then there are these nets hanging ten or fifteen meters above them which really stand there Like A barrier ,like a Wall and are dangerous to everything that swims, lives in the water.

00:11:58: So some animals maybe even a larger type of fish.

00:12:03: do they actually see this wall or how does it work?

00:12:08: I mean is that visible for them?

00:12:11: They get entangled.

00:12:14: sometimes they see nothing.

00:12:16: so basically the nets gets draped You could say over the wreck where they can get tangled up, because maybe there are also fish inside that their hunting.

00:12:30: Then I can imagine them getting out or swimming around it.

00:12:34: but we have very often found entire seal families in these nets.

00:12:42: That's the problem exactly, especially in the Baltic Sea.

00:12:46: Seals are social animals.

00:12:48: that means if one animal gets caught and starts bellowing or screaming Or whatever you want to call it It can easily happen that others come along And whole family get trapped.

00:13:00: These nets just so incredibly dangerous.

00:13:05: I was also back off the coast of Rügen last week with my group recovering ghost nets and fortunately this time we were able to cut a lot of large live fish out of those nets, save few lives.

00:13:22: We are often too late but animals get tangled up their fins, all sorts of things.

00:13:29: They try to free themselves and eventually they're wrapped up in there like a mummy And then they can't get out!

00:13:35: Then just drown or starve...

00:13:39: Yeah that sounds like an absolute nightmare.

00:13:41: honestly You guys actually had cut them off.

00:13:45: I mean That is incredibly precise work at the depth of fifty meters depending on specific situation with absolutely zero visibility especially when there's no light.

00:13:56: And well, I'm not a diver myself so... ...I really can't even begin to imagine any of that.

00:14:02: Yes it's definitely dark sometimes we're lucky and have few meters visibility but as soon you touch those old nets the visibility is gone because they are obviously full sediment full dead carcasses.

00:14:17: when fishing net snag on submerged shipwrecks We must exercise extreme caution.

00:14:24: archaeologists strictly forbid using heavy hooks to rip them away as these wrecks are often unidentified and undocumented.

00:14:34: And we have no way of knowing what might be resting down there, um...and for that reason We must ensure we do not damage the shipwrecks.

00:14:51: And the thing is, it's very difficult work with zero visibility and five degree water temperature which we had last week.

00:15:05: Then at those depths that means if you worked down there for half an hour or three quarters of an hour We have to factor in another hour-and a half until back on this surface.

00:15:16: And when we work with these air-filled bags, they keep the nets under tension and as soon as a final cut is made this net sections shoot up like rockets.

00:15:27: We really have to be careful not let any of our gear get snagged in there because if were suddenly ripped upward at that speed it would in worst case scenario prove fatal?

00:15:39: Yes!

00:15:40: It REALLY WOULD!

00:15:42: How many people where on their last dive?

00:15:45: I saw this wonderful video.

00:15:47: Well, beautiful, hauntingly beautiful because you were just pulling up this huge net but that was a pretty big ship.

00:15:55: i mean it was uh yeah It Was A Real Ship and Not Just Some Boat.

00:16:00: What Is The Team Size You Work With?

00:16:04: We were divers, we were two groups of three.

00:16:07: But the ship that we're working with right now is a fishing boat... ...that helps us pull these really heavy nets out from water.

00:16:16: The divers are on smaller boats like inflatables or something No cabin at all where you can get in and out quickly.

00:16:27: but until about two years ago we also used these boats to recover the nets, pulling them into the boat by hand.

00:16:34: But that meant you could only recover smaller pieces with their amounts down there.

00:16:39: You just can't make any progress unless you have a big boat With a winch or at least a crane To pull larger quantities out of water.

00:16:49: and It's very important to me that we get the fishermen on board too, because we've really built a close relationship with them over these last two years.

00:17:00: They understand what they're doing and are happy for their help.

00:17:05: The boat costs money of course!

00:17:08: And yeah...they actually enjoy doing it now and understand why we do this.

00:17:16: It wasn't like that in the beginning.

00:17:17: Many environmental groups are really going after the fishermen.

00:17:21: But those fisherman working there, they aren't a problem.

00:17:24: you have to work with them You have to help them.

00:17:29: They already Have it hard enough as it is because everything Is over fished and their always escape goats And if they lose nets then get punished for That on top of it.

00:17:39: Well thats not The way To go In my opinion.

00:17:44: Thats Not fair And it doesn't work in real-world practice either.

00:17:50: It just can't work!

00:17:52: That means from the system's perspective there are sort of internal barriers that make reasonable behavior at least very difficult.

00:18:00: The problem is you often have a completely different surface current due to wind and such compared with the bottom.

00:18:09: I mean, i've experienced dive sites where you had three different current directions while descending to the bottom and that changes.

00:18:19: It even changes within three or four hours.

00:18:23: it is incredibly difficult to find an object you have lost when can't see no surface voice to mark a spot to ever locate again especially if takes one hour of two to realize its missing.

00:18:39: Yes!

00:18:39: I understand.

00:18:40: If we look at it from another angle, these ships that you clear of nets so the archaeologists can even begin their survey.

00:18:48: and then there's perhaps also a risk assessment because a ship like this could contain something which might be dangerous.

00:18:57: How do you actually find those ships?

00:19:01: By now especially in Baltic Sea the seabed has been completely scanned is done, of course by all the Navy ships.

00:19:14: Then many companies that are laying pipelines or cables or whatever building tunnels and even all wind farm operators buy now the Baltic Sea.

00:19:29: in the North Sea There's hardly a square centimeter left that hasn't been scanned.

00:19:37: And, um...that is good thing because if you know there are wrecks or shallows somewhere and they get marked on the charts then the fishermen knows those shallows.

00:19:48: Often, the reason they lost their fishing nets on wrecks was because it had a great spot where there always caught plenty of fish and didn't realize that there were hidden wrecks or something else lying down.

00:20:00: so their nets inevitably got snagged.

00:20:03: But like I said before we don't even need to look for them!

00:20:07: Well, we generally collaborate with local dive centers or perhaps some of the local fishermen and they really know all the best spots.

00:20:15: And even though we often don't have a clue what we're dealing with We just go ahead take a look dive down and see what it actually looks like.

00:20:23: how much work are we looking at?

00:20:25: What is that hanging there?

00:20:27: Before we start any kind of salvage It's obviously always very important to first explore these wrecks and take a careful look.

00:20:37: Is it a warship that sank, perhaps still fully loaded with ammunition or other things are better not brought up before something happens?

00:20:47: Yes I must say what you're doing can be quite dangerous.

00:20:51: Are operating entirely on your own Or part of much larger more formal and organized association?

00:20:58: Do you actively coordinate efforts or share sensitive information operating in the field.

00:21:05: Could you please explain to me how that process actually works?

00:21:10: There are now a number of different organizations and associations.

00:21:17: As I said, when we're salvaging on Rugen.

00:21:21: We have a contact person.

00:21:23: He's very well known and respected man who works with many organizations clubs And also the authorities there because often if they are actual historical wrecks If their confirmed historical wreck you need to permit just be allowed work them at all formed all of our rescue operations through these very generous donations.

00:21:52: When we are actually there since we do this in our spare time, none of us does this for a living.

00:21:57: it is entirely volunteer work.

00:21:59: um We are sacrificing our free time and the hard-earned money from the people who support us so It must be used very wisely.

00:22:06: if we are therefore A week or ten days?

00:22:10: Um...we want to make sure we get as much out of it As we possibly can.

00:22:16: That means we'll go to the places where there's something.

00:22:20: And if everyone went into that same spot and didn't coordinate, We'd be wasting a lot of important resources!

00:22:30: Most groups out there now recovering ghostnets coordinate with each other... ...and are among few who actually go in great depth because they have necessary equipment And we'll leave the slightly shallower wrecks for other groups who are more active in recreational diving, so that you can really get as much done together.

00:22:54: That's interesting and a question which comes to mind now is... We could put it on the podcast text or show notes – that what they're called!

00:23:06: You have a website right?

00:23:07: And probably donate there too.

00:23:10: I think when people hear about your work the risks you take and how important it is for the ocean, some of them will say wow.

00:23:23: I'd really like to contribute to that!

00:23:25: i can't dive myself but i'd love to donate to The Cause.

00:23:30: do you have a way to donate on your website?

00:23:34: could you please announce in that way?

00:23:35: then

00:23:36: We do.

00:23:36: yes, we really appreciate donations because as I said a day of salvage operations on the Baltic Sea costs us about five thousand euros.

00:23:49: That is just ships and fuel costs.

00:23:54: It is really anything but cheap.

00:23:57: We each pay for our own travel, hotel and meal expenses.

00:24:02: I mean it's not a cheap affair And people often ask yeah does that even make any sense?

00:24:08: because you are only able to pull a ton of stuff out in six days.

00:24:15: But when you think about it, we go out with a big fishing trawler.

00:24:21: We go out to smaller boats.

00:24:25: the amount of fuel that gets burned through alone That's I don't know... A few tons diesel fuel being burnt every week which also means a lot of CO too.

00:24:41: But on the other hand, this stuff has to go and unfortunately I can't do it with a rowboat.

00:24:46: And also don't have any solar powered or wind-powered ships at my disposal.

00:24:53: And therefore, as I said... ...I can only keep saying that it is very important we all work together and while we clear out the old stuff of which there's still a lot.

00:25:05: There also somewhere at some point has been a chance to prevent more from coming in That maybe at one time there was an opportunity for our work no longer necessary.

00:25:16: It will take us awhile but always remember hope dies.

00:25:20: last

00:25:20: Yes, no.

00:25:21: That's the right strategic approach.

00:25:24: and it applies everywhere else too where ships are used and petty bottles are collected because people for understandable social reasons... ...and also because of destroyed infrastructure or out-of-poverty throw them into the rivers and so on.

00:25:41: everything is clear.. ..and all that has to go but its important work on root causes and point out that there are ways to at least dramatically reduce these things.

00:25:54: And if we, I always say... If you had this conversation fifty years ago and develop the technology of these ideas then it would be fifty years further along.

00:26:03: today We will probably have a completely different conversation!

00:26:09: We'll go from one point to another.

00:26:10: Guided by the motto That It is Never Too Late To Begin You Really Must Take Action.

00:26:16: That is exactly what we are doing at Redesh Fantasma as well.

00:26:19: It's essentially the very same concept, but back to your work and networking.

00:26:26: I think you met one of our association members At a trade fair.

00:26:31: it's called iThinkBoardI don't know.

00:26:35: if that all can You tell me about why Boat Is interesting for you.

00:26:41: Boat is Europe's largest water sports trade fair and it really offers all watersports enthusiasts the chance to get up-to-speed on new technologies, so not just for divers anglers or surfers but naturally as the name boat suggests also people interested in buying boats.

00:27:04: Everything related to water sports or water in general is covered by this trade fair in Düsseldorf.

00:27:10: It goes for ten days in January and, uh...for us that's particularly interesting.

00:27:15: There are on one hand a large a very large area called Love Your Ocean, where many organizations that deal with marine and environmental protection can present themselves.

00:27:30: Usually if the association is non-profit it's free of charge And there is a very large area for divers who are of course, very important to us because we're always looking at good and experienced divers that can accompany us.

00:27:50: We're interested in doing this work on a voluntary basis with us.

00:27:57: That's how you get talking!

00:27:59: Well, precisely because there are such different types of areas.

00:28:02: It's people that come from all over the world just to get their orientation and you can communicate with so many people.

00:28:13: And we also met well foundations There who wanted to find out what is going on in marine environmental protection sort basically carried-out What kind of clubs and opportunities there are to get oriented?

00:28:32: And above all, To Get Involved.

00:28:35: Yes!

00:28:35: For us it's every year I've been doing this for over twenty years now that i'm regularly at the boat show The whole time.

00:28:42: It is always interesting to see what kinds Of people you can come into contact with There.

00:28:50: Yeah its actually quite similar to a massive spinning flywheel.

00:28:54: You know where People Are able genuinely support and encourage one another.

00:29:00: Yeah, it's like this when you've been active in the diving scene as long I have then of course you met many people in your life.

00:29:12: The boat is always a kind-of family reunion.

00:29:16: You see people who haven't seen in ages can catch up projects or expeditions.

00:29:30: We have already got a very interesting net recovery project currently in the works for Greece, that actually came about while we were at The Boat Show earlier this year and some truly interesting things always seem to happen over there.

00:29:45: When is it that trade fairs are held during January?

00:29:49: It's like last week-and-a-half of January.

00:29:53: Yes!

00:29:55: Yes, and then you were also in Portugal recently.

00:30:00: You took the time.

00:30:02: it was between the many commitments.

00:30:03: You have there and your work That that you need.

00:30:10: What did you?

00:30:11: Observe their?

00:30:13: I Was very lucky to attend this symposium by Ridesh Phantasma And not too forget ocean patrol who organized it operationally.

00:30:25: I must say, i found the approach incredibly exciting and refreshing.

00:30:30: They got everyone to their table where they could speak openly without any finger pointing the fact that there was an opportunity to get new technologies up close.

00:30:47: That could really be a game changer in this whole thing, so I thought it would work out well.

00:30:56: There were fishermen involved and politicians involved scientists involved divers everyone.

00:31:05: Usually it's often the case that one side doesn't want to have anything to do with another.

00:31:11: One side says, It is not our fault we are there to blame or you don't really get anywhere.

00:31:17: I've experienced this often enough myself and found this symposium very encouraging.

00:31:23: i would be pleased if could manage make something like these happen in other countries with c-access so some things similar exist thereto.

00:31:34: To be honest, it was truly incredibly exciting and it was exceptionally well executed and perfectly organized with all the right people at a time in place.

00:31:43: Yes exactly!

00:31:45: Everyone needs to come into table.

00:31:49: We can only move forward if we have everyone truly on board with the plan because as you saw for yourself at The Symposium your innovation is great, but the fishermen simply won't adopt it.

00:32:00: As long as It puts them At a disadvantage.

00:32:03: yeah that Is exactly the problem?

00:32:04: We are facing.

00:32:05: yes I agree completely.

00:32:07: Yes let us work together in close partnership to find ways To bring A symposium of this specific nature to Germany.

00:32:14: it Should be possible.

00:32:15: why not?

00:32:16: You were just mentioning the really wonderful and diverse mix of people we had there.

00:32:21: And that has a lot to do with our core concept, where we address every single one of these challenges that arise throughout this entire life cycle here at Radar's Fantasma.

00:32:34: That includes taking decisive action much earlier doesn't it?

00:32:40: But also involves the difficult task for pulling these nets out from water!

00:32:45: And here is my question for you, because I know that many other organizations really struggle with this.

00:32:50: How do you actually dispose of the nets once you have pulled them out off water?

00:32:56: After all they are quite complex and sophisticated technical structures.

00:33:01: It's not just one type of plastic.

00:33:03: There´s metal in there too.

00:33:05: how to handle it?

00:33:07: Have you developed a standard solution on that in mean time ?

00:33:11: It is very difficult thing.

00:33:14: That was also one of our biggest problems at the start.

00:33:17: I mean, i can...i only started doing that kind of work and pulling those nets out if i know where they're going to end up afterwards.

00:33:26: it's no use after i've pulled them up just leave them somewhere in harbour or on some pier And then ended back into sea during next storm.

00:33:35: Then i haven't achieved anything.

00:33:38: And I also can't just put them in a bin somewhere and have them hold away like regular household trash because it really is hazardous waste.

00:33:49: It's plastics, but the big problem with the whole toxins that they're sometimes soaked into are also against... as a poison bait for rats.

00:34:04: because if nets are lying around in the harbor or on a ship, you obviously don't want them getting chewed up by some rodents.

00:34:14: For that very reason there is lot of lead pecked inside and that's really difficult.

00:34:27: It is still a huge problem for us today.

00:34:29: so when we recover the nets in Rugen, thank God our local contact has a very large site where they are allowed to store all of their net.

00:34:40: we pull out there every year around by end-of-the-year.

00:34:43: we have to figure what to do with them.

00:34:46: We also have a company based in Norway known as Norfer.

00:34:51: They are engaged in manufacturing specialized nets for fish farms, and they also maintain a secondary production facility located in Lithuania.

00:35:02: And their old nets from the fish farms are recycled or if that's no longer possible... ...they are melted down and broken into various plastics then sent out to the world as pellets so other things can be made of them.

00:35:20: We are allowed to drop off our nets there, but we obviously need a way to transport them to that location.

00:35:27: That is not always the case.

00:35:29: I have people from Lithuania on my team and when they visit their families They do take a trailer or two along to help get.

00:35:38: But if that's not possible, we'll have to dispose of it as hazardous waste which is extremely expensive and nobody will pay for this because whatever I pull out belongs to me.

00:35:52: And i'm responsible.

00:35:53: what happens in the end?

00:35:55: We also have the problem in the Baltic Sea that due to conditions there, the nets some of which are two or three hundred years old and still made off plastic fibers Are so well preserved.

00:36:08: The ones It isn't just the plastic nets, you see.

00:36:12: We're dealing with a complex mixture of materials which makes disposal significantly more difficult because companies that specialize in recycling plastics cannot do anything with old natural hemp or those other types of nets.

00:36:28: That really is massive ongoing problem for us.

00:36:31: Let's see if I've got this right.

00:36:33: So your saying it's mix hundreds years old practically ancient fishing net gotten tangled up in the modern nets?

00:36:42: Yes, they really are intertwined through currents.

00:36:48: Through water movements.

00:36:49: over many years They've been rubbed together In such a way that you can no longer distinguish one from another.

00:36:56: You cannot just say this is it?

00:36:57: and there's only one big tangled inseparable formation One inseparable thing.

00:37:05: Honestly I was left completely speechless for a moment.

00:37:20: Well, we have grown to over a hundred members now.

00:37:23: Though not every single one of them is actually an active diver.

00:37:27: We currently have thirty to forty active members who regularly join our various activities throughout the year.

00:37:33: Naturally, it is understandable that not everyone can attend every single event as mentioned most.

00:37:39: only six weeks of vacation plus you might have family commitments hobbies or other personal pursuits want follow.

00:37:49: On average, we do about six to eight weeks a year where we carry out these recoveries and then some long weekends on top of that depending upon the situation.

00:38:00: Yes?

00:38:02: The members your team have dedicated significant amount their time for this particular calling.

00:38:10: I suppose that calling is likely most accurate term but tell me what would you say Sabineh?

00:38:16: It really quite simple.

00:38:19: For me, it is truly just a matter of the heart and there's absolutely no question about this.

00:38:26: I really want to do something for these seas or oceans.

00:38:39: We are divers.

00:38:41: we've had so many beautiful experiences and encounters with them And this is our way and opportunity to give something back because we can.

00:38:53: Yes, then maybe the word calling comes to mind if I haven't already mentioned it but for me It goes in that direction.

00:39:00: yes That's really so Sabine thank you So much.

00:39:06: i think will see each other again?

00:39:09: Maybe do something together between The organizations We belong Because as you said in our pre-talk, it really takes a variety of different elements to solve the problem.

00:39:22: The situation is deadlocked and everyone needs to pull together And that just requires teamwork and mutual trust To move forward.

00:39:34: I personally find the upcoming trade fair In particular... ...to be truly interesting and valuable opportunity for us to collaborate there and to explore how we might be able to take things much further with that specific group.

00:39:49: However, I really need to digest everything you have shared with me first.

00:39:54: it is quite a lot of information for me... Yes!

00:39:57: I can certainly understand where are coming from..I mean i've spent nearly ten years working on this project so truly grasp what actually all about in just five short minutes.

00:40:12: To help clarify what we discussed today, We've included relevant links in the show notes leading to images our Facebook and LinkedIn pages And a clip of these operations in action.

00:40:27: Watch it see how incredibly challenging underwater conditions really are.

00:40:32: You will also find all necessary information there regarding How easily reach donation section on your official website.

00:40:41: That is truly vital component as the success of your important work depends entirely on the generous support of your community.

00:40:48: I would like to express my sincere gratitude for this insightful conversation and, for the incredibly valuable time you have so kindly given us!

00:40:58: And i am quite certain that we were able to share something new... ...and quite interesting with all the listeners of Michael's Green

00:41:13: World.